Stargate Worlds Trailer Discussion, Part Two

[Ledaye]

Hi, in the wake of the trailer airing, thought I'd take a moment to drop in and post . . . especially after enjoying the forum threads detailing your reactions. This is all great stuff and I encourage you to express your opinions of our work, pro and con. This is an entertainment business, and we do what we do for you and your enjoyment.

But today I wanted to talk about one concern that many of you have expressed, especially in the wake of your recent debates. That concern has to do with whether the content we create now for the game should be considered ‘canon,’ or, to put it another way, your worry that we are sometimes playing ‘fast and loose’ with the IP that we all know and love. I don’t usually post on the forums but today I am moved to do so, to ensure that you all understand our perspective. I’m going to do this by telling you a little story, the story of our relationship with Brad Wright, Robert Cooper, and their staff. Sit back, get yourself a sparkling beverage, and enjoy.

When I started at Cheyenne, my first and most important job, even above hiring the design staff, was to analyze the show, understand what made it great, distill that essence, and then figure out how to translate that essence into a fun game. Not just a game that Stargate fans would enjoy, but a game that could compete in a crowded marketplace with the other great games out there.

I watched the show intently in order to de-construct SG1 from the writer’s point of view. I worked to understand what the show’s creators feel would constitute the crucial elements that make the show unique, to identify those elements which sustained it for 10 years. I then wrote a document entitled “Battle for Ascension,” which I crafted both for my own design team as well as for Brad and Robert. But, in their case, it was intended to demonstrate to them that I understood their baby, fully intended to honor it, and also give them a sense of the direction I needed to take it when we adapted it into a game.

I emailed it off to them a few days before I flew up to Bridge Studios in March of '06 to meet them and their writing staff.

When I got there, Brad came into the meeting with the document in his hand. He plopped it onto the table, and I couldn't help but notice that it was heavily annotated and extensively dog-eared. I was, umm, . . . well to say I was nervous doesn't quite do it justice. I mean, these guys were in the middle of shooting what was at the time the first few episodes of Season 10; they had many, many people working for them, actors' egos to manage, cameras rolling even as this meeting took place, etc. And, somehow with all that, Brad had taken the time to not only look at the doc, but take notes and (obviously) read and re-read it a few times.

We made pleasantries, threw out some comments about the rain in Vancouver, and then Brad picked up the doc and pronounced, "This is the best analysis of what makes Stargate work that I've ever seen. Obviously you understand the show, and I can't wait to see what you're going to bring to the table."

Extremely relieved, I asked him some basic questions about what our limitations were. For instance, I asked "Okay, so I'm thinking of making Asgard available as player characters. I'm assuming that the physical limitations we see on-screen are more due to your effects budget and your need to puppeteer them." "Correct," Brad replied. I said, "I assume that, if we saw them off-screen, they'd be more physical and be doing things like, say, playing zero-g golf." He laughed out loud and agreed, "Absolutely." (This was before I knew that Brad and his staff were all passionate golfers. Lucky guess.) I asked whether they were okay with us inventing story lines ("Yes, sure!”) and new worlds ("Are you kidding? We're just as tired of shooting in the woods as you are. Do things we CAN'T do on the show, please!") I talked about some of my ideas for how to work in the Goa'uld as player-characters. "You need to make a great, fun game. We're here to support you, to bounce ideas off, to help." This was all I could ask for. They needed to get back on set, we agreed to keep in touch, and I left feeling very happy indeed. They gave us access to all shooting scripts as soon as they were posted, and told us to contact them whenever we wanted.

We proceeded to design the game, work on the fiction, choose archetypes, etc. The game and story evolved quite a bit from the original document, and the story itself has been re-written four or five times. But we kept plugging away. The next face-to-face meeting we had with them was March of '07, when I chatted with them briefly after a Stargate convention in Vancouver. That's when I pitched them Op-Core ("imagine Stargate meets Jack Bauer"), our full vision for the Goa'uld, the basics of the game's overall story, our choice for the 'big bad,' etc. We agreed that a full presentation of the game was in order.

Dan Elggren, Howard Lyon, Sean Dugan, Steve Garvin and I went up in April of '07 to present the artwork and the story to Brad and Robert. Point by point, slide by slide, we presented the multiple story arcs to them in great detail. Listening to us were Brad, Robert, and Martin Gero. I pitched the SGC story, Sean pitched the Goa'uld story, and Steve pitched the Op-Core story. Howard presented the artwork (they were impressed, and why wouldn’t they be?), and Dan backed us up on anything that we missed. We pitched our story in their writer's room, with an episode of Atlantis broken on the white board behind me. Our story had legs, and was interesting enough to get Brad’s gears spinning, and he got into it. Very quickly, you could see what makes Brad a great show-runner. Problems we had wrestled with for a while were quickly solved, and we moved on. A few hours later, we broke for lunch. Robert had to leave to go on set (they were shooting Ark of Truth that day), but Brad and Martin thought the story was good. "You guys have done your homework," Brad said. Certainly there were things Brad wanted to change (they have some 'never-published' rules about how the Gate network functions, for instance), but fundamentally, the story passed muster.

Since then we have continued to send them our story documents. Everyone at Bridge knows what we're doing, and there continues to be a dialogue with the show's creators and writing staff. Recently, in an interview about the game, Brad Wright was asked a couple questions about what we're doing, which I'll take the liberty to quote:

Question for Brad: What are your impressions of the game's story?
"I think it's cool. What I think is very cool is the game has what is essentially a very old villain and a very new villain combining forces in such a way that every one of the races that you can play can work together still with their own agendas to solve what is essentially one grand problem. And I think that's brilliant, to be perfectly honest. When I was pitching my second movie idea to MGM, and Robert and I have had discussions, I wanted one of the main characters to be an OP-CORE character. Because I agree with that. I love the notion of someone who is basically serving what they perceive as the greater good, but outside the purvue of the SGC and what we would perceive to be the right way to do things. The Jack Bauer approach, which is how Chris sold it to me. No, I like it. I like the notion of OP-CORE period.”

Question for Brad: So are you treating the game as canon?
“Yes! Yes. Let's put it this way, there's elements of the game that I admire as Stargate canon and would have incorporated if we'd kept on making SG-1 anyway.”

So, what’s the point of this long post? This: Cheyenne is passionate about building a game we all want to play (both you and us), a game that feels every minute like you’re inside an episode of SG-1 or Atlantis. That is the most important thing to us and to me, day-in and day-out. To that end, we have and will continue to bring new ideas to the Stargate universe. I want you to love what we do, but until I can tell you more about what we’re doing, until I can actually show you what we’re doing, I’m asking you to trust us. At least a little. And, I think I can humbly ask you for that, because Brad and Robert have grown to trust us with their baby. I really hope you’re willing to go along for the ride.

P.S. No, we’re not putting ‘Asgard golf’ in the game.

[Khatie]

You rock, Ledaye. Thank you!!

[Odin'son]

Thanks

[Khabarach]

Originally Posted by Khatie

You rock, Ledaye. Thank you!!

He does indeed.

Thank you for putting in the time and effort to respond and address peoples concerns

I get the feeling that this is one of 'those' posts that I'll end up quoting over and over again to others

[Cythis]

Definatly a great response!

The trust part, is an issue for some of us old timers who have been burned by many, many games but even the trailer got me pretty excited so keep it going.

[Nephthys]

Isn't Op-Core very similar to the original NID and original rogue NID?

...although they lost their way along that path and became snaked

[asgardmidget]

I read through the forum and other fan sites everyday, and I'm glad our fans are as passionate and excited about the game as we are. Ledaye, that was an excellent post; there's not a day that goes by where I'm not amazed by the people and the work being done at CME. Keep up the great work (both forum members and CME staff)!

[Jayna]

. Not just a game that Stargate fans would enjoy, but a game that could compete in a crowded marketplace with the other great games out there.

Been saying that to these folks here for almost 2 years

Okay, so I'm thinking of making Asgard available as player characters. I'm assuming that the physical limitations we see on-screen are more due to your effects budget and your need to puppeteer them." "Correct," Brad replied. I said, "I assume that, if we saw them off-screen, they'd be more physical and be doing things like, say, playing zero-g golf." He laughed out loud and agreed, "Absolutely."

Finally i have something to show Rryst when i bring up budget arguments for SG1 to SGW conversion!

Thanks!

"Are you kidding? We're just as tired of shooting in the woods as you are

This is hilarious!



Great post!

[TheAincient]

Thank you for the great post.
For me its you comment about "being in an episode of SG-1 or Atlantis" that has allayed a lot of fears for me.

So are you ever going to publish “Battle for Ascension,”?

[Ledaye]

Originally Posted by TheAincient

Thank you for the great post.
For me its you comment about "being in an episode of SG-1 or Atlantis" that has allayed a lot of fears for me.

So are you ever going to publish “Battle for Ascension,”?

Well, while the document has sort of a compelling title, it really was kinda dry. It was more of a 'here's a list of the fundamental reasons the show's been around for ten years,' followed by many pages filled with possible approaches to the game (races, classes, etc.) Only about 50% of that ever made it to the final design.

[AJZ]

Great post Ledaye!

My favorite part:

Originally Posted by Ledaye

Question for Brad: So are you treating the game as canon?
“Yes! Yes. Let's put it this way, there's elements of the game that I admire as Stargate canon and would have incorporated if we'd kept on making SG-1 anyway.”

[TheAincient]

Originally Posted by Ledaye

Well, while the document has sort of a compelling title, it really was kinda dry. It was more of a 'here's a list of the fundamental reasons the show's been around for ten years,' followed by many pages filled with possible approaches to the game (races, classes, etc.) Only about 50% of that ever made it to the final design.

Well hold on to it, it might be 'dry' but I think it could be very interesting.

[Dylan Deltoran]

Originally Posted by TheAincient

Thank you for the great post.
For me its you comment about "being in an episode of SG-1 or Atlantis" that has allayed a lot of fears for me.

Couldn't have said it better, thanks Ledaye and the rest of CME...

[blkjag]

Wow - thank you for this - Its nice to see everyone from CME reading the forum from the development side. This explain alot of the thoughts process behind the game.. thank you so much. I got one question - Do the business suits type guys and upper management read these forum also?

P.S. No, we’re not putting ‘Asgard golf’ in the game. - what about gate golf ?

[Khabarach]

I do have one suggestion. I think a large part of the 'reaction' as it were to the trailer was because it was the first real chance to see how SGW 'fits' with the Stargate universe. One way of improving this would be to expand a bit on some of the screenshots etc. that have been released.

Now I'm not talking about giving away the plotline for SGW, but would it be possible to tell us the 'story' of some of the things we have seen? There have been 4 or 5 planets released which we haven't seen in SG1, but all we know of them is what they look like and in some cases what they are called. If we were given the backstory/lore to one or two of these planets and were able to say "that's Stargate", despite it not being seen in the show, then I think people would have a lot more confidence when something else which hasn't been seen (like the armour) pops up.

[Khestral]

Originally Posted by blkjag

Wow - thank you for this - Its nice to see everyone from CME reading the forum from the development side. This explain alot of the thoughts process behind the game.. thank you so much. I got one question - Do the business suits type guys and upper management read these forum also?

Who wears a suit??! We are making games

You would be surprised who reads these... most folks I see here at work do... it's just not something folks can focus on right now since they are mostly hammering the game out

[Captain Underpants]

Originally Posted by Khatie

You rock, Ledaye. Thank you!!

This cheesy pun has taken me ten minutes to think up, so I hope you all appreciate it. (Drumroll please):

"That's right - you totally rock the Asgard, dude."

Now that I have that out of my system, I promise never to try and be funny again.



Thanks a ton, Ledaye. Not only was that fun to read (despite my lack of sparkling beverage ), but it's definitely put a lot of my personal concerns to rest. A lot of us ######## fans are a little uneasy about some of the details that we've had so far, understandably so, I think. You've got some pretty big ideas, but because we're still in the dark over so many details, its hard to just sit back and hope for the best. The fact that you've not only sold two of the biggest Stargate fans in existence (Brad and Rob) on the idea, but done so to such an extent that they want to use your ideas as well...

Damg. That's nothing short of impressive. You must have some seriously good ideas kicking around!

I'm really interested in this Op-Core notion now, particularly how you describe it. The Rogue NID came across as a bit underhanded, criminal and sleazy, but from the way you describe Op-Core they're a bit like Section 31 from Star Trek: while you might not agree with the way they do things, they do at least have morals, a cause, and are working towards what they think is "right". That sounds like a fantastic plot aspect, and Brad seems to agree - if his movie pitch does get picked up, it'll be interesting to see how they tie their story in with what you've done so far!



As for "Battle for Ascension" being a little dry: don't forget that you're talking to a forum full of people who probably take Stargate as seriously as Brad and Rob do!

[Rryst]

Originally Posted by Ledaye

P.S. No, we’re not putting ‘Asgard golf’ in the game.

Very glad you put that in. You wouldn't believe the post I was formulating whilst reading the rest of your post after seeing 'Asgard zero-g golf' early on.

It's great to hear how passionate you are about sticking close to the universe the show has created and the lengths you've gone to do so.

Originally Posted by Jayna

Finally i have something to show Rryst when i bring up budget arguments for SG1 to SGW conversion!

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousands times (well probably only a dozen or so )......It doesn't matter the reason something is canon, it's canon. The writers were forced to work within their contraints and what they came up with is what is.

It doesn't matter if they wanted Asgard to be grey 'young' Yodas. They're not. And I'm more than glad the Devs seem to have seen fit to faithfully recreate how the Asgard move. Whether or not that transfers from the trailer to the game, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Originally Posted by Ledaye

Well, while the document has sort of a compelling title, it really was kinda dry. It was more of a 'here's a list of the fundamental reasons the show's been around for ten years,' followed by many pages filled with possible approaches to the game (races, classes, etc.) Only about 50% of that ever made it to the final design.

Will you release it to us here on the forums? Eventually I mean, likely post beta or release when it contians no secrets about the game?

[Khatie]

Love the new avatar and sig, Captain Guarded-One!

[Captain Underpants]

Originally Posted by Khatie

Love the new avatar and sig, Captain Guarded-One!

Thanks!

I really need to find something to distract myself with though - at this rate I'll have put together a comic book style adventure made from screenshots by the end of the month!

*cringe*

I need to get a life...

[Dalvon]

Thank you for posting this it is nice to see the developer taking such interest in our opinions. I left World of Warcraft because the lack of support I saw from the developers. Plus it got boring fast though I still cannot believe that I played the game for three years. Hopefully Stargate Worlds will keep me as a customer for just as long or longer.

Post like this make me more excited to see the game. Keep up the good work guys

[Bunter]

It's great to know that everyone's on the same wavelength and that you guys have so much support when you need it. I guess it's good to know that they're only a phone call away if you need anything. It's cool that Brad is happy for the game to become canon as well

Thanks for taking the time to write this, Ledaye

[magecu]

Well I would like to join all the thanks for the great post.

I like it's construction and that it is light to read.

From previous interviews and posts I was suspecting the situation was something like that. But there is nothing like a direct confirmation of hopes.

Thank you very much for taking the time and posting this, it really helps a lot.

[spazyomatex]

Thank you very much for this post, Ledaye. You've reassured me that this game will be every bit as awesome as I've hoped. Finally, I will be able to sleep at night again.

Thank you!

[Zach]

I couldn't ask for a better response from CME. Thank you for taking the time to respond to the community Ledaye.

Next debate, Asgard Golf!