Official Forums or Not Official Forums?

[Khatie]

Mark Jacobs of EA recently expressed his opinion that official forums were not necessary and therefore won't be created for Warhammer Online *.

Here at Stargate Worlds we feel Official Forums for the game are an important part of the developer-player relationship, not only during development but through beta, launch and far beyond.

What do you think? Are Official Forums necessary? Do they attract the worst kind of trolls and ultimately scare off the serious posters and would-be community builders? Or are serious fans able to weed through the chaff and find what they need to sustain a healthy relationship with the dev team?

Let me know what you think!



* you can read Mark's post, here.

[Lowestofthekeys]

If official forums can be maintained properly by consistent interaction between the developers and consumers, I'd say "yes."

But if they ever get to be like the WoW forums, then God help us all.

[Jayna]

In a recent survey of the forum

26.55% said that they were Extremely important, i wont purchase a mmo without a forum where the devs visit

28.25% said that they were a part of the process whether they would buy or play the game depending on if they were on the bubble.

45.20% said that official forums did not effect their decision at all



I would NOT even give a MMO the time of day without an official forum AND some dev interaction on those forums.

I spent too long in FFXI to ever go back to the dark cold silent world of no official forums.

[Myrdinn]

Personally, I like affliate sites.
Biggest role-model I have thus seen, is the one run by Traldan over at http://www.vgtact.com

I'm hoping we get one set up for the archies, for this game, set up on a similar premise, for the archy specific aspects of the game.
General forums are nice, and a good community builder, but, for the really arcane bits, it is nice to talk with the specialists.

Edit: don't get me wrong, however. Dev interaction is a *very* important element. I'd like to see the devs interact in the sanctioned affliate sites (and the main site)!

[Stormvet]

Yes, official forums are necessary!

This ensures a central repository of information and community, vs. random and dispersed affiliate site networks.

The beauty of it is, there will always be 3rd party sites (with or without sactioned affiliation) so I say go for it on the official forums and let the 3rd party sites spring up as they may.

[Kieren]

The main reason I prefer official forums is for the reduction in time spent trying to track the various dev posts. I don't mind having various forums for more specific discussion of the various archetypes/gameplay elements, I think it can, at times, be more beneficial for discussion to have it take place on a forum centered around a community with a vested interest in that particular aspect of gameplay(See Aruspex's Diplomacy discussions on VGTact), than to have that same discussion on the official boards where the posters might not be as active in that section.

[bctrainers]

Originally Posted by Stormvet

Yes, official forums are necessary!

I agree on this completely right here!

[Anun]

forums are needed just because they build up the community.

this may sound a little preachy but to me when a game company says they arnt having forums it comes accross like they know their game is going to get complaints and they are trying to control that. for all the reasons they give for not having forums it still just looks like they are covering for a sucky game.

maybe thats just me but thats the impression i got when vanguard did it and also the impression im getting from WAR. its like they know that theyv promised so much and to be honest their game just doesnt measure up to the hype so they are muting it to avoid backlash.

[Myrdinn]

Originally Posted by Anun

forums are needed just because they build up the community.

this may sound a little preachy but to me when a game company says they arnt having forums it comes accross like they know their game is going to get complaints and they are trying to control that. for all the reasons they give for not having forums it still just looks like they are covering for a sucky game.

maybe thats just me but thats the impression i got when vanguard did it and also the impression im getting from WAR. its like they know that theyv promised so much and to be honest their game just doesnt measure up to the hype so they are muting it to avoid backlash.

I don't know; I *do* know I'm against having all the forums on a single site. I think Khatie and the CME folks here are awesome, however, I was one of those who questioned SOE during the CU, and outright protested during the NGE.
Six accounts banned, posts deleted, because I complained. I don't think CME is cut from the same bolt (much less cloth) as SOE was during those days (nor do I think the current SOE is the same company; they have learned their lessons writ large), but... it is too easy for a company to be abusive, if all one's eggs are in one basket.

[sarge mat]

If you don’t have official forums you don't get a core structure in place. There is no one big place everyone can come to get news from the dev's etc. So yes I would say they are very important. They also help build hype for the game.

I know of a lot of fan sites for games that do have very good forums as well though. They can have draw backs but for the most part they are good and very important.

[Spaceman]

Official forums are a must for me. I need that kind of interaction from the DEVS as well as the community of players for many reasons. One, it keeps me in the loop of things that happen within SGW. Two, it allows me to play the game at a pace where i understand whats going on and what I have to do to achieve my goals. Three, it gives my a chance to voice my opinion about concerns I might have about the game.


Part of the reason i stop playing Vanguard was because they had no forums. I thought t was just plain stupid. Please keep the official forums for SGW. It would be better for the game.

[Thunder]

Since I play Guild Wars which does not have an official forum...and find that it does just fine without them...I don't mind games that do not have them as long as their is interaction with the development team in several other forms. Guild Wars does a good job because they provide the following instead of official forums:
-A central news site for everything in guild wars (players.guildwars.com)
-Regular in game chats with the community manager who goes out of her way to get answers for the questions that players ask
-Regular news posts (in the forums) to popular fan sites
-An Official Wiki, provides a place were everyone can comment on everything in the game. The talk pages for the staff members serve as Q&A pages.

The wiki they run really replaces the forums...it provides the same function in a different setting. Without that stuff was a bit on the scattered side.

However, when choosing whether or not I think official forums should be implemented I am inclined to lean towards "yes they should be". I think that a game can provide sufficient community interaction through other means, but I think it is best done on official forums.

And since we already have a forum here with a good community formed around it...I see no reason why this game should lose its' official forums.

I do feel that one essential thing to have in an official forum is a separation between paying customers and non-paying visitors. There should be general forums to discuss the game, and then there should be much more detailed forums (forums for race, class, server, and then a set of specific gameplay sections (crafting, combat, pve, pvp, etc)) set aside for paying customers so they can discuss the game without the interference of people who aren't subscribed. True some people will pay just so they can interfere, and that's their right, but the people who don't want to pay just to complain about the game will have to sit in the general area with everyone.

[psycho dude]

I think they're nice to have, but not truly needed. On top of that in case not well maintained they can do the game only more bad than good since nobody likes messy forums filled with trolls and flaming, now in case that's your official forums, what would it say about the game?

[ooryl2]

what's the quote.... Give me official forums or give me death?

[Tianlord]

Official forums i think are the best thing for a game, because u cant alway be at a computer where u can play the game so you may just want to troll ur servers forums keep on top of stuff find out where to do stuff and have player ran event server wide instead of just command/guild wide

[Jeff Westen]

Originally Posted by Khatie

Mark Jacobs of EA recently expressed his opinion that official forums were not necessary and therefore won't be created for Warhammer Online *.
...
What do you think? Are Official Forums necessary? Do they attract the worst kind of trolls and ultimately scare off the serious posters and would-be community builders? Or are serious fans able to weed through the chaff and find what they need to sustain a healthy relationship with the dev team?

* you can read Mark's post, here.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

Official forums are very important. Not only does it get people interested, but also it is a good ad all by itself. And if the forums are properly maintained, as they have been, it can be the greatest asset for the game.

As for trolls scaring off people, I don't thing that is true. I had seen all the trolls SGW had and I am still here.

[Xelloss]

I think an official forum are important so the developers can get information out very easily especially info that doesn't warrant a press release or a front page post like if the servers were down, and whats the status.

It also give a good understanding of the direction the game will take rather then it be a mystery every patch.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Vlad Cole

As for trolls scaring off people, I don't thing that is true. I had seen all the trolls SGW had and I am still here.

I don't think we have really had any true trolls yet...just concerned fans with a pessimistic view on the game.

[Phaze]

Well, i bought WoW (and numerous other MMOs) without knowing theres forums for the game. And i guess there are plenty plenty plenty of those people like i was back then. Nowadays, when im a spoiled brat from SGW, my view has changed about it. Good moderated forums is a good sign from developers to me. Also, times has changed, and things like facebook have left their mark to the common knowledge, and thus have an effect to how people perceive these kind of things.

BUT, and here comes the but. I think there are alot of people, who couldnt give a rats *** whether a game had forums or not. They just read the reviews and vote accoring to them and the hype.

That is not to say, that a game shouldnt have forums. It not only spuds up interest in the more HC group of fans, but it also gives the devs a very nice ground to test some ideas and so on. Most of all this would be the beta forums. If there were no beta-forums, id say the beta-process would suffer greatly.

I dont see alot of trolls dampening the feeling of the game. I dont see anything big that is spoiling the SGW hype here, quite the contrary, even if people argue about certain screenshots etc.

So, in the end my verdict to this would be: While open forums may not determine the sales of a game, it would be a very stupid thing to pass. Neglecting beta-forums would be outright stupid.

[SnakeCharmer]

In my opinion, no, they aren't needed.

It's very hard to get good, accurate feedback on anything, in a forum. People get extremely vocal about changes to their class or their playstyle and many times can take it as a personal affront that the devs do indeed dislike them, but that's never the case. I personally want devs to be committed to what they are doing; public feedback (especially too early) can cause them to waiver or second guess what they are doing - causing delays, increasing costs, etc. The job of writing/compiling an accurate survey of exactly what you want to know becomes paramount. And easier to manage.

I believe that a blog style information page is best, with comments turned off. You can still solicit input, and do so in a very controlled environment (optional / required survey).

What do you want a potential customer to see when they investigate your game via a google search? You want them to see YOUR information, not information from disgruntled players flaming the devs and other players on a consistent basis. And that information, if gleemed from forums will be slanted one way or another because of the 'vocal minority' that isn't necessarily a microcosm of your actual playerbase. No official forums allow you to control that flow of information without outside personal bias or misconception.

You still need a 'face' for the company, which is where Khatie and Scepter come in. They are the front and center face that the public sees 90 percent of the time. I believe that the chance for error and miscommunication skyrockets when dev #123 posts on the forums about a particular change they were apart of, and the gaming public is crucifying him or her for it. It's awfully easy to have a misstep by that person. Let people like Khatie and Scepter do the job they are trained to do, and get paid to do: Control the flow of information, take the heat from the announcement and douse the fires (if any) accordingly. A dev may be the absolute best at what he or her does, but absolutely lousy in terms of dealing with the public - especially a pissed off public.

Any changes in the game, updates and such, can be sent out via press release that the gaming websites will no doubt publish. It can be put in as part of the client launcher via a link. And if you want to solicit more feedback, you can open up forums for public viewing/comment, then take them down when you're done. Or alternatively, you can still colate data from dedicated gaming websites (or dedicated fan sites) a semicontrolled environment, especially if working in conjunction with the owners/admins/moderators of said sites. Also, a studio run wiki that they can update on the fly would be a tremendous asset.

There are many, many options that work as good as or better than forums, and are far less intensive and far more cost effective than managing a huge forum and its inherent subsets.

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by Khatie

Mark Jacobs of EA recently expressed his opinion that official forums were not necessary and therefore won't be created for Warhammer Online *.

Here at Stargate Worlds we feel Official Forums for the game are an important part of the developer-player relationship, not only during development but through beta, launch and far beyond.

What do you think? Are Official Forums necessary? Do they attract the worst kind of trolls and ultimately scare off the serious posters and would-be community builders? Or are serious fans able to weed through the chaff and find what they need to sustain a healthy relationship with the dev team?

Let me know what you think!



* you can read Mark's post, here.

While official forums may not be "necessary", I think there is a lot to be said about having them.

TBH (and at the risk of sounding a little fanboy-ish), the communication/interaction from the staff/developers/designers/etc on these forums has been a very real attraction for me. I have read through a lot of "dev chat" posts in a lot of games, but I find the candid/honest/real responses here to be a breath of fresh air. And as we enter the phase of having a playable game (actually seeing what's been created), forums (beta forums) can be an invaluable place for honest feedback, idea vetting, and discussion about what works well, and what doesn't work well. As long as trolls and doomsdayers can be controlled.

When the game is in beta, or goes live, people feel invested in the game (and feel like the devs are listening) when a developer drops in and says "We are looking at problem X, or changing the way gameplay Y works. What are YOUR ideas on how to do this?".

I also really enjoy interacting/debating with other passionate people watching and waiting for the game. People on these forums are generally a very good crew. There are, and always will be, a few people that are disruptive, but I will certainly take the bad with the good. That is simply the nature of having a larger forum population, with a diverse set of ideas about what makes a game their ideal game.

Keeping forums friendly and productive requires a cooperative effort from CM staff and other forum members in my opinion. People must be encouraged to stay civil, to participate, to engage. If they can't bring themselves to do that, I trust the moderators to step in and handle it.

Forums can be very negative (see Vanguard non-official forums, where a small group of hardcores chewed through the developers, the game, and any non-######## player in their path). But forums can also be VERY positive.

Without forums, I would probably have never connected with my current guild/gaming community. And that would have been a shame.

So while I don't NEED official forums, it can certainly add to my game/community experience.

My 2n.

[Aredhel]

You'll get a major mixed bag of responses here!

VGTact, Silky Venom, TTH, WarCry and about 10 others....we were all part of the Affiliate program with (our site is VanguardSpheres). There were strict guidelines for us to follow, which were appreciated by most! We got exclusive interviews and screenies, news fed to us first to share with our folks, and the devs were allowed to speak on the sites. At one point, Spheres was chosen to be the site that the Test Server players came to discuss what was going on. We had our token Test dev there, too. He made sure the community had all the patch notes in a timely fashion and everyone appreciated him a bunch!

We moderated so things never got out of hand, and I think the community appreciated it. If you look, we had over 8k registered users, but when SoE decided that they didn't want to continue with Sigil's Affiliate program, well...you can see what happened to the numbers. Sites that allowed more criticism and some flaming kept a good number, because people either love to find fault and place blame or they like to read the drama and talk about it, which perpetuates and feeds the need of the ones bad-mouthing to begin with. They got the attention.

Some said that they didn't like going to different sites for the information, i.e. seperate class sites, crafting sites and so on, but others said it's not a problem to bookmark them and just click! Some said they got tired of wading thru all the garbage on the OVFs to find the one morsel of information they were looking for...thus the redundant posting of things for the third and forth time looking for answers. It's not hard to use "Search", but sometimes that can also bring up a lot of stuff to wade thru!

Glipster's favorite quote: Closing to consolidate!

The Affiliate program was good. It's also much easier to mod a board that isn't so congested! It certainly kept us busy, but we had fun doing it!

So, this is a thread that will never actually come to a general concensus about which is "better," but it will get a lot of opinions that are worthy of consideration, to be sure! And yes, the trolls will come. It's just a matter of time.

Good luck!

[lalapb]

Originally Posted by Stormvet

Yes, official forums are necessary!

This ensures a central repository of information and community, vs. random and dispersed affiliate site networks.

QFE (Quoted for emphasis)

I need my official place to troll. I am a good troll though.

[Captain_Quint]

I know that in the aforementioned poll that Jayna mentioned I said to me an official forum was not important factor in purchasing a game. I consider a nice side bonus, because it's nice talking to those with like interests and different view points, granted there will be trolls and they tend to get out of control sometimes (I know it's not just me that has experienced this first hand) and flame can erupt uncontrollably before a mod can take action.

But as I said I view official forums not as a necessity but more of a side bonus, and frankly I love the community here.

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

I personally want devs to be committed to what they are doing; public feedback (especially too early) can cause them to waiver or second guess what they are doing - causing delays, increasing costs, etc.

I've been very impressed to see the dev group here take the "we aren't even going to consider changing anything until you play the game" stance. Lesson learned from other MMOs I imagine. Sticking to the vision is crucial.